Women in Ministry: Calling, Church Stigma, and Mental Health — with Jess Quak
A Candid Conversation with Jess Quak on Sunburnt Souls
Welcome to Sunburnt Souls, the Christian mental health podcast providing hope and resources to address stigma. Today, host Dave Quak is joined by his favourite human—his wife and ministry partner, Jessica Quak. They dive into their 22-year journey in church leadership, discussing the emotional and spiritual realities of gender-based expectations, the pressure points in a ministry marriage, and the unique mental health challenges faced by women leaders.
The Journey to "Pastoral Assistant"
Dave Quak: I’m stoked to be recording this on the last day of the Australian winter, and I’m especially happy to have the best person I love to bits, my wife, Jessica Quak, here. Welcome to Sunburnt Souls!
Jess Quak: Thank you. I thought you were going to say Jesus.
Dave Quak: Oh, no, no, no. We obviously… I do appreciate you coming on, Jess. We’ve been married 22 years now, and you’ve been a pastor just as long as me. We’ve been in this game forever, but our start was different.
We both studied at our denominational Bible college from 2004 to 2007. I did a Bachelor of Ministries; Jess did the harder degree, a Bachelor of Theology. While doing that, we were leading a huge youth ministry, earning very little, and just going hard. At the end, after fulfilling all the requirements and personal ministry development, I got registered as a pastor in our movement.
Dave Quak: So you did all the same work as me, got higher grades, you could understand Greek, which I couldn't. But what did you get at the end?
Jess Quak: I was registered as the highest possible qualification I could, which was a Pastoral Assistant.
Dave Quak: A pastoral assistant. You were very excited about making fun of me for that for a very long time! It felt ludicrous, because you did literally exactly the same thing. That was where our movement was at the time, still working through what women in ministry looks like.
Dave Quak: Ten years later, there was a vote to ordain women in ministry that was overturned. Then last year, it was finally approved. For you, what was it like going through that whole process?
Jess Quak: I don't have the same journey as what some women may have had. I've had a really blessed run, considering. I felt called to ministry pretty early on, and even in that time when I was called, we were part of a denomination that didn't have women preaching. It didn't feel at all like that was ever going to be a problem, because I felt like, if God is calling me to do something, He’s going to be the one to make the way to make it happen.
Conviction Over Denomination
Jess Quak: That has been my story. Whether or not my title is something or not something, I've just every step of the way wanted to be obedient to what God has in front of me right now. I’ve obviously had to go through a lot of processing myself: What does this look like biblically? What does this look like with people who do or don’t agree with where I end up?
Jess Quak: But whenever these sorts of questions come up, it often comes down to the very real understanding that I am going to be standing in front of my Father at the end of the day. I'm going to be held accountable for everything he's asked me to do, and everything I have not done that he’s asked me to do. He's going to love me either way, but I want to be hearing the words, "Well done, good and faithful servant." That's actually my end goal.
Jess Quak: Yet, I can still appreciate that other people may not have the same stance as me. I have brothers and sisters in Christ who I love so dearly and churches that I champion so heavily. We don't agree on whether or not I should be allowed to preach to a church. I'm totally okay with that, though, because I know they love me and I know that they love Jesus, and they're just also doing what they can to stand before the Father at the end of the day.
The Mental Health Toll of Church Stigma
Dave Quak: The crazy cool thing is there are really smart people on both sides who have wrestled this out since Jesus left, and they still worship the same Jesus. But what’s it like for the ones who don't have the dream run that you've had?
Jess Quak: This is where having a voice within the Christian church is so important. I'm part of groups of women in ministry, and someone recently put out: "I'm writing a book about women in ministry. What's some of the worst things that you've been told?" Some of the comments I can't even say.
Jess Quak: And so much the time, it is difficult. I think, especially for single women, it's been hard. Traditionally, it was very easy for a wife of a pastor to serve in ministry—a two-for-one deal, often unpaid, but expected to do the work. And that's made it hard on ministry marriages because the line isn't clear. But as single women become a much bigger demographic, having a voice to speak to other women is becoming bigger.
Jess Quak: It's hard sometimes. I know I've personally had people walk out when I've stood up to preach. But I can understand how some are coming into that situation. I think it's just the differences in men and women that you probably don't think about as much.
Jess Quak: As a woman, there's just different challenges within ministry. One of them is so stupid, but it's clothing. People do feel a need to say something if they feel a woman's wearing something inappropriate. And so going to try and toe the line of what is appropriate to wear.
Jess Quak: Ministry is not just preaching on a Sunday; it's going to weddings and baby showers. I was a mum, and there was a time when I was breastfeeding and had to try and figure out how to do that. It’s that hyper-awareness that that is actually still part of the conversation for people. Whereas for men, you've gotten up with holes and paint on your pants and forgotten your shoes.
Dave Quak: I mean, our church on the beach doesn't care.
Jess Quak: Right. But it is overcoming the hurdle of, you are going to have a large group of people say what you're doing isn't biblical, perhaps it's demonic, or you're leading people astray. It’s overcoming those things that is just the additional pressure—the little bits and pieces that you don't think should matter, but they sort of just all add up.
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Trust, Calling, and Team Ministry
Dave Quak: When those people walked out, it's almost like you couldn't care less.
Jess Quak: I could care less, because I felt that I'd done all the work to prepare to preach what was in Scripture that day for that congregation. I'm living by the conviction of the Holy Spirit in me. I applaud those people for their conviction. But I do feel sad for the church as a whole that then missed out on having those two people that day be a part of what he was doing there. Church on a Sunday isn't just about the person up there speaking. Church is about every person who comes in is a part of loving someone in the way that God made them to love someone else.
Dave Quak: That is an advantage of sharing the role. We literally work five days between us and each specialize in certain areas.
Jess Quak: It's brilliant. We have such different skill sets. There are issues that people aren't going to be comfortable speaking to you about, that will come speak to me. At the moment, I'm happy having perimenopause and menopause discussions with people—how is it affecting your spiritual walk? That's a really uncomfortable discussion for you to have.
Dave Quak: I don't even know what it all is, man! But that's what makes it a good team.
Jess Quak: To absolutely give my gratitude to the men and women who were part of opening the way for me to be able to serve, who said, "I see this calling in your life and I want to create a space for you to be able to do this." We lead the church together, and we sort of say, if this is a part of who we are as a church, we're going to be championing anyone who feels called to any position within the church. That's where we lean biblically on this.
Connect with Sunburnt Souls
If you are navigating the emotional weight of leadership, gender-based expectations, or struggling to find your place in the church, Sunburnt Souls provides resources and community for your journey toward biblical mental wellbeing.
👉 Visit sunburntsouls.com to discover more.
