Women in Leadership, Ministry, & Mental Health: A Conversation with Jess Quak and Maddy Mandall (Part 1 & 2)
Part 1: The Calling and the Hurdles
Dave Quak: Welcome to Sunburnt Souls, the Christian mental health podcast where we talk about life, faith, and our mental wellbeing. This week is a special episode. We're continuing a conversation about women in leadership and the mental health implications of that journey with Jessica (Jess) Quak and Maddy Mandall. Maddy, welcome to Sunburnt Souls.
Maddy Mandall: Thanks so much for having me.
Maddy Mandall’s Interview with Kay Warren
Dave: Before we dive in, I have to confess I'm jealous. I’ve been trying to interview Kay Warren for a year—no luck. For those who don’t know, Kay and Rick Warren are incredibly influential Christian leaders, and Kay has become a global voice for faith-based mental health support after tragically losing their son to suicide. While I was getting “no’s,” I saw you chatting with Kay!
Maddy: It kind of fell into place. The Baptist World Congress was in Brisbane recently, and Kay Warren spoke at a Next Gen Leaders Summit I was involved with. I was hosting that portion, and we managed to fit in an interview while she was here. She was so loving and grace-filled.
Dave: You held your own with one of the most prominent pastors on the planet.
Maddy: She’s incredibly humble.
Dave: Maddy, what's your role week to week?
Maddy: I currently serve with Queensland Baptists in leadership development—helping leaders grow in health and skills across the state, from emerging leaders through to pastors. I’m a pastor by background, and now I get the privilege of working with churches and leaders right across Queensland.
Navigating the Ministry Call as a Female Pastor
Dave: Last week, you offered generous comments about women in ministry. What’s it been like for you as a female pastor in our movement?
Jess: Every path is unique. Whether you’re a man or a woman, your leadership journey will look different. It’s important to hear varied experiences in this space because it’s not one-size-fits-all in mental health and Christianity or leadership.
Maddy: From early on, I felt called to ministry. I came to faith at 15 and by 18 felt called to Bible college. When I expressed that, I didn’t get a “no,” but a “not yet.” I watched several young men my age sent straight to college while I waited. Even when the time came, being a woman in church leadership often felt like an extra hurdle—a question mark to push through.
Jess: I got tired of the “should women be in ministry?” conversation because simply being in the room triggered it. Coming from a non-Christian home, entering that environment was jarring.
Maddy: Same. For me, that meant doing the deep work—engaging both sides of the theological debate—while also holding a sense of calling. It was exhausting and at times painful. Our church entered a wise, honouring 12-month discernment process about whether women on staff could be called pastors. It felt personal—you’re the live case study. I often walk with younger women now who are facing it, helping them protect their mental health and navigate community dynamics.
Mental Health Hurdles in Emerging Female Leaders
Dave: You mentor in Project 11. What mental wellbeing hurdles are your female participants raising?
Maddy: The cohort is almost evenly split. For those stepping into pastoral responsibility, power dynamics emerge. It’s a mental load to honour others while standing firm in your call. They’re also doing theological work—reading content that can feel like “a knife to the gut.” And many feel God has placed a vision in their heart they’ve never yet seen embodied by someone who looks like them. When I preach, I can almost see the gears turning: “You look like me. Could I do this too?”
Dave: What’s it like to feel called but blocked?
Jess: As a young woman, I had to learn to ground my identity in God and keep showing up—obedient, faithful, unoffended—while also recognising when someone’s refusal to learn from me said more about their character than mine. It was frustrating, but essential.
Maddy: I struggled with imposter syndrome and blurred identity—letting ministry outcomes define me. That contributed to capital-B Burnout.
Burnout, Medication, and Rebuilding Rhythms
Dave: Tell us about the burnout.
Maddy: After college and our church’s discernment process, I hit a wall. The constant mental battle, the weight of not wanting to divide the church, and being 25—it all added up. I stepped away. God used that space to do identity work and restore my health.
Maddy: Practically: I saw my GP, went on an SSRI/anti-anxiety medication for a season, saw a psychologist, and rebuilt rhythms—sleep, diet, exercise, community. My GP said medication can be like a step-stool to see over the fence. It helped. Over time, I came off it. Now I live differently.
Dave: That it wasn't a life sentence is key. No guilt in the church either way. What’s different now?
Maddy: Identity work with God and my psychologist. Better self-awareness and trusted people who can ask, “Is this happening again?” I’ve built a broader support system—professional supervision, a mentor, and periodic returns to therapy. I guard my rhythms: time in the Word, retreats, movement, and rest. Those ordinary things—sleep, nutrition, exercise—matter massively for mental health for Christians.
Dave: Jess, how do you stay sane as a pastor?
Jess: I’m introverted and process internally. Professional supervision has been invaluable for accountability. I need space—especially early mornings with God—to feel grounded. Simple, sustainable habits keep me well—space, Scripture, and small joys.
Dave: You've both moved from “called with hurdles” to roles that reflect your calling. We’ll unpack what it’s like on the other side of the hurdle next episode.
In the meantime, check out our 28-day course, “Loving Life with Faith and Mental Health”—a practical, faith-based mental health support resource.
Part 2: Beyond the Hurdle—Stewardship, Collaboration, and Purpose
Dave: Welcome back to Sunburnt Souls. Last week, we spoke with Jess Quak and Maddy Mandall about calling and the mental health implications of serving in the church. We’re now exploring what it means to live out your calling as a woman of faith once the initial hurdles are cleared. This is exactly the sort of Christian anxiety and mental health and Christianity conversation our audience tells us is helpful.
The New Challenges: Advocacy and Tokenism
Dave: You’re now actively living your callings—Jess as a senior pastor and Maddy as a statewide leadership developer. What’s it like on the other side of the hurdle?
Maddy: I feel deep gratitude. That said, some hurdles don’t vanish; they scale. I used to wrestle personally for my own calling; now I’m often doing advocacy on a larger stage. There are still churches that won’t invite me to preach. There’s a grief there, especially when I know there are students in those congregations who could be encouraged by seeing a woman lead and teach.
Jess: When you’re no longer justifying your presence, you can simply be who God made you to be. My current tension is guarding my heart from cynicism about tokenism—being invited because I’m a woman rather than because I’m the right person for the job.
Dave: How do you know if it’s token or genuine?
Maddy: I often take the opportunity, then do what I can to ensure it isn’t token next time—by advocating for broader representation so the voices of women are naturally part of the conversation. I try to be brave, speak honestly, and widen the path for others.
Jess: Even in our marriage and shared senior leadership, the stereotypes don’t fit. Ministry works best when gifts, not gender, drive responsibility.
Dave (to Maddy): Do young male leaders listen to you as well as young female leaders?
Maddy: Yes. In the last few years, I’ve found strong camaraderie with men and women. It’s encouraging to see men and women better together—using their God-given gifts to build the kingdom.
Distinctive Leadership & The Future of Church
Dave: Do we have solo women senior pastors in our movement?
Maddy: We do—at least one in a culturally and linguistically diverse church, and she’s phenomenal. My prayer is for more examples of women leading not to prove a point, but because God has called and gifted them.
Dave: What might be distinct about women in senior leadership?
Maddy: Speaking from my own wiring: more collaboration, empowerment, shared ownership—still with vision, but discerned in community. Perhaps a stronger emphasis on nurture and compassion. Early in ministry, because people didn’t automatically trust me, I had to lead more collaboratively—slowly, values-first, bringing people along. Frustrating then, fruitful later.
Jess: Personality also matters. Authenticity matters—serving the real people in front of you. Ministry isn’t a cut-out; it’s a calling. Also, every Christian woman is in ministry. The question is, “Who has God made me to be, and how do I bring that faithfully?”
Dave: I sometimes lament how often we default to “songs + sermon + announcements + go home.” Maybe future women senior pastors will help us embrace that holy variety.
Maddy: I’d love to see that.
The Joy of Pastoring
Dave: Before we close, what do you love about being pastors?
Maddy: It’s an astonishing privilege to walk with individuals and communities—helping people feel safe and secure in their gifts and calling, then watching God’s story unfold. When you know you’re doing what God’s asked of you, there’s purpose and hope. I can’t imagine doing anything else.
Jess: For me, it’s those light-bulb moments—revelation in a four-year-old or a ninety-year-old. Seeing God at work as people discover who they are in Christ. Pastoring is worship: we’re drawn to worship as we watch God do what only He can do in His people.
Dave: Beautiful. Maddy, would you pray for us and our listeners?
Maddy (Prayer): Lord, thank You for being a creative and personal God... help us walk with grace, love those uniquely affected, and keep unity in the Spirit. Strengthen each listener to step into their calling, knowing that when we are weak, You are strong. Keep us in step with You, in Jesus’ name, amen.
